Meet New People Constantly
The Inventive Journey
Podcast for Entrepreneurs
Meet New People ConstantlyMeet with 2 new people, 3 new people, 4 new people a week. As many people as you possibly can. I have found that people absolutely love to support business owners. It's still one of the reasons I think America is such an amazing and great country. Entrepreneurship is such a foundation for what this whole country is built on. To me I have seen so many times someone who just wanted to support me as a young entrepreneur trying to build something. I would encourage anyone who wants to start a business or even just take their career to the next level. Meet new people constantly.
The Inventive Journey
Starting and growing a business is a journey. On The Inventive Journey, your host, Devin Miller walks with startups along their different journeys startups take to success (or failure). You also get to hear from featured guests, such as venture firms and angel investors, that provide insight on the paths to a successful inventive journey.
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meet with two new people three new people four new people a week as many people as you possibly can um people i have found that uh people absolutely love to support business owners and um it's still one of the reasons why i think america is such an amazing and great country is because entrepreneurship is such a foundation for what was this was this whole country was built on and so to me um i i have seen so many times somebody who just wanted to support me as a young entrepreneur trying to build something and i would encourage anybody who wants to start a business or even not even just take their career to the next level meet new people constantly [Music] hey everyone this is devin miller here with another episode of the inventive journey i'm your host devin miller the serial entrepreneur that has grown several businesses to seven and eight figure companies as well as the founder and ceo of miller ip law where we focus on helping startups and small businesses with their patents and trademarks and today we have another great guest on the podcast and it's matt baxter and give you a little bit of an introduction to matt so matt in his own words was kind of the the chubby neighborhood kid at 15 years old that he figured out that he could make more money mowing lawns and he couldn't working minimum wage so he from that decided he would start a lawn care business and once he did that he was having a lot of fun did that for you know he got all the way up to you know wendy's accounts and grew it and had other people hired some people on doing it throughout college and then uh decided met someone over beers one night decided to sell it off and then from there he moved over to doing a little bit more on working on people's resumes wanting to get people better candidates better insight earlier on on both on both sides of the aisle of employers as well as employees of uh wanting to help the interview process give more insight and so he could started his company that he's doing now and i'll let him talk a little bit more about that but that gives you a brief introduction so with that welcome to the podcast matt thank you so much for having me so i gave kind of the the brief overview or a little bit of an introduction but maybe walk us through a bit more of your journey and uh let's go from there yeah well you covered a good basis of it uh the the journey started with a lawn care company i was as you alluded to i started push mowing lawns and that business grew like crazy and had the fortunate opportunity to hire somebody pretty early on so i was a senior in high school actually hired my first full-time employee which is really fun experience and i grew up in just outside of ann arbor in a little town called celine and so when i went to college i went to hope college which is on the other side of the state so i'd have somebody help manage the business while i was gone and each summer i was going back and forth during the you know fall and spring time i was at school and then summertimes i was full time you know back in my hometown and we just kept hiring people and i mean it was just a really really fun company and i really really enjoyed just growing that and i actually ended up doing like a bunch of lawn care uh for a funeral home director so it was a weird thing that every time somebody in the community died i had job security which was just like this odd thing that you never really think about at a young age but um so that yeah that a couple years later i as you mentioned i had somebody who was a local company that they did a lot of big accounts they approached me and reached out about potentially the opportunity to sell and uh had a chance to you know transition out of that business which is what led me into the next company and started but i'll i'll pause there and let you know so i have a couple questions so i mean yeah in high school and how many employees did you have during high school just so one or did you grow it any further than that so i had one full time and then every every summer i was always hiring some buddies like just helping out on the side but one one like full-time dedicated employee and then probably i think throughout the course of it i hired 25 or 30 different friends or you know people that i knew throughout it um but yeah yeah so so with that you know as a high schooler you know most people in high school are thinking about dating or about sports or about you know band or whatever the hobby is and they're not necessarily thinking how do i run a business or how do i do that so how did you make that mental leap so to speak or you know was it kind of hey i want i was excited and it was fun to do it as a high schooler and it was you know is a way to raise or make a lot of money or is it hey i i don't know what i'm doing i feel like i'm floundering or kind of how is that at that early age to be somebody's boss in high school yeah i mean to say that i wasn't thinking about girls or sports or anything like that was not fair because i i played lacrosse in high school and i had some girlfriends as well too but um you know i i would say one of the one of the times like the imposter imposter syndrome kicked in was whenever as like a 16 17 year old i had to go like knock on somebody's door to like ask them to pay because they're like a month behind that was like the the one time that i was like man i'm like a little bit out of my league or like nervous about that i don't know what it was but you know when it came to like hiring people is a pretty natural like easy thing just because a lot of my buddies who want to come work for me it was a dream job for them because they could work outside have music on you know eat fast food drink all the mountain dew they wanted to while we were you know spreading mulch and listening to music so i mean it was a great time for everybody and you know of course the irs is going to listen in but some of it was like cash gigs as well too so you know it was i i think all around there was very little like you know serious management and i didn't have to do a ton of like leadership style um and and quite frankly spreading mulch is not that difficult so you know so all that to say i never really felt like i had that like imposter syndrome in tons of different ways but so so you do that and and so now now we'll jump a little bit forward so you do that through high school and you mentioned now you went to college you kind of continued to do it but it was a little bit more remote made a little bit more difficult to to manage yeah but you were still doing it and it was still a good source of income so tell us a little bit more you know you so you go to a bar you meet a random person and within a few days you sold your company was it that that simple or what was that uh experience like yeah so it was a um it was kind of that step by step but so i knew the company that ended up buying us they did like a lot of major accounts like the michigan state highways they did like some major like schools and this was a big big company and so they knew of my business and we never really competed all that much and so kind of the reason for the business case for them was that majority of big money in landscaping and lawn care is actually in the landscaping and hardscaping um as a younger company mowing was the money to be made for us because it was steady you know i knew the accounts we were going to mow each week and you know going and making you know a dollar two dollars a minute mowing lawns was pretty good money right but in in the bigger companies landscaping is the way to do it and so this business had sort of known us for some time is that we weren't really tapping into any of the major equipment landscaping jobs and so that's what this all came to be was the guy reached out you know we were always smack talking with each other and we were kind of competing but it was like a good relationship we would you know stop it like a local pizza joint and see each other and cruise and it was it was a good time but you know where they reached you know with it this guy sat down and said hey you know i know you're managing this business from a distance also i know you haven't really tapped in a ton to the landscaping side of your company we'd love to potentially buy your mowing accounts with the intention of making money off of all the landscaping would you be interested in that and so yes it was kind of a quick thing and you know i said yeah let me buy your beer and let's talk about that and that's where kind of a couple he ended up making an offer that night and i called a couple friends and it made sense and so it's kind of one of those things that um just kind of fell from the sky and was a pretty fun opportunity so just one more just because i think it's kind of a fun story so did he approach you and just say hey i'm first of all you know how to how are is a bigger company than them approaching how were they even aware of you as a high schooler slash now college student that you were actually running the business you just had a big enough reputation had enough accounts or how did they kind of run into you or become aware of you or do you know yeah um so the neighborhoods that i had a lot of like one of the most fun jobs i had was it was like seven houses on a lake that were all like acre-sized properties and so literally it was just mowing straight lines along this lake that was like these were pretty premier very nice homes and so it was known in the community as like these were desirable homes to do work for and i just happened to get pretty lucky with a couple of them that then referred their neighbors and stuff like that so when i sold it i got up i think we had about 70 active accounts and so these were all you know good size homes and so you just begin to and we i mean i've done it for six or seven years i think it was six years when i officially sold it so you get to just know other companies like that and you bump into like when you're at nurseries and picking up mulch or you're picking up you know trees or shrubs to put in you you just bump into other companies and for the most part it's a pretty respected industry like companies respect each other and it's what there's enough work to go around for everybody to have a good company and especially for us being tiny tiny tiny and so um yeah and i guess a couple of the commercial accounts i would i'd run into them so like like you mentioned i had about 10 wendy's that we ran and so those were obviously a desired book of business that you know that's a pretty nice cash company so yeah does that answer your question yeah no that answers are great so so now we continue to fast forward so you decide okay i'm in college i'm gonna sell while they're getting is good and i'll make a little bit or make some money out of selling the business and then what did you know finish college i assume then what did you do next or how did you move on from there and kind of what how did you figure out what you're going to do after college now the business or you sold off the the previous business so i was um a sophomore going into my junior year at in college when i sold it and so i sort of professionally scatterbrained and always thinking about a bunch of different ideas was beginning to think about the company now wedge that i own um this kind of in the early stages of an idea and so i is i sold the company like july 1st in 2015 and then basically the rest of the summer was like transitioning out and then when i got back to campus i basically just started working on this next company that i wanted to start it was like idea stage and i started talking to a bunch of different people and obviously we can dive into what led up to all that but then the next transition was basically another semester in school and then also starting what is now today wedge so you started to hit on so you started to talk to people you kind of transitioned out but how did you decide okay you know kind of two different businesses i'm going from what would be a lawn care business and landscaping hardscaping in those kind of environment to now it's hey we're going to help people that are on the employment was it hey i'm coming out of college and getting a job is harder you know it's a pain you know it's a painful industry and a painful process i you know i have you know light bulb goes on and that's what i'm going to do next or you know kind of you know how did you land on that idea or that would be the next thing that you were going to do yeah so it was a culmination of a couple things so the week after i sold the lawn care company my dad and i actually had a week-long trip to jackson hole and my dad was he was an oral surgeon but also owned his pr was like okay yes i didn't do background check assessments whatever definitely i would you know brings have a conversation if i felt like they could do a half day on the job just as like a basically you know uh early stage step into the business then i would hire them and so what i learned quickly was like i didn't really care if you knew how to mow a lawn didn't really care if you knew how to weed wack i could teach you those things but what i can't teach you some of the soft skills so i started my dad and i had a lot of time in the car we i mean it was a 20-hour drive out to jackson hole and so we were just talking about this and he kept saying like even when you know hiring for his practice the number of times he'd look at a resume and by the time he brought that person in for an interview he would know in the first minute or two minutes whether they were at least worth continuing going through the hiring process we just talked about that and then when i got back from that trip i basically called all of the people who i uh previously had mowed lawns for a lot of more business owners or executives and i said tell me about your hiring process and every single person basically came back and said a resumes suck and they're not very indicative of who the candidate is and secondly we just can't find people and then you know this this was obviously over the course of multiple weeks but then i get back to hope's campus and all i'm surrounded by is my friends who are sophomores juniors and seniors applying for jobs and constantly saying the same exact thing i don't have the experience to go get a you know big boy or big girl job i'm applying for all these different jobs and i don't really know how to get my resume to stand out and so to me it was kind of like okay there's got to be something here there's got to be some way for for companies to get a better understanding of who people are and for candidates to get a better opportunity to share a little bit more about who they are and so it was basically just kind of the perfect storm of those two things i was sitting on both sides in small ways but sitting on both sides of the coin and so that's where ultimately uh the name wedge came from was we wanted to be a wedge in the hiring process and so you know the the business evolved and obviously i'm sure we'll dive into that but it is a software company that we provide video interviewing for companies and for candidates it's an opportunity for them to stand out above and beyond just traditional resumes and cover letters and so um hopefully that's a little bit better insight into the start of where this whole thing came from so no and that certainly is so now so you have that you know first of all you come up the idea now you can say okay now how do we implement it you start to implement it and get an idea on that side now you know was it out of the shoot of success kind of you know hey i started my own lawn or lawn care business i'm starting to make money from day one is perfect it's awesome now i'm gonna do the same thing with you know the current business or was it more difficult or was it different or kind of how was that process building a business in a different area for a second time now that you're coming out of college you know so um i went to a school called hope college that they've got a pretty awesome um entrepreneurial institute in the college and so my you know remaining part of my junior year and then i graduated a semester early so my uh basically three semesters i was working on wedge while i was in school and it was amazing how supportive just that overall community was the greater west michigan community and basically anybody who i talked to was just incredibly encouraged about somebody wanting to come out the gate and start a business right out of college and so um on that side of things i felt incredibly supported and i you know had a network of people who are continually making introductions and we got super fortunate with a couple early like pilot companies that would you know be willing to test the product as we built it out and you know obviously anytime you launch a new business there's going to be tons of issues and headaches and problems and five years later there still are but we were just super fortunate to have some people surrounded around us that said you know hey we're going to help you however it you know takes and that's introductions if that's us using if that's us you know whatever it may be so i was just really really well supported and um you know can't really look back and say that i did it on my own because it definitely did not so so now so that and that's certainly insightful now we now we fast forward to kind of you you went through the the growth pains and remind me now how long ago was this since you started and how long have you guys been in business it was um five years ago i mean actually november was when we officially filed the llc of 2015 so it's been literally almost five years so now so five years they've come and gone now has it been mostly you know you kind of alluded on it's been mostly uphill is it been mostly downhill they've been you know flat and you know kind of how is that because there's a lot of you know granted i think you guys are solving a problem that exists within the league or not i was going to say legal industry the job industry i have it right ought to have it so just one that's in great did me but you know within the job industry but there are a lot of other competitors out there that used to be and i'm i assume there's other you know monster jobs and you have zip recruiter and you have linkedin that's even into it and all those different ones and so was it difficult to find a niche to or was it hey we are doing something different enough that people are wanting to use our services or hey we're going to do a b2b play and we're actually going to get them or kind of how was it over those five years to kind of navigate or find out where you guys you know where to take the business um yeah i'll ask i'll answer your first your your very first thought around has been mainly uphill or mainly downhill so knowing what i know today the first three and a half years were a complete utterable drag obviously i thought they were moving quickly i thought things were exciting we were changing the world but then now knowing what i know it was like man how did we even get through those um so you know super slow for one it was obviously running a software company in a lawn care company running a business there's definitely overlap but two very different types of companies and so for one it was just learning how to do that secondly um we were selling into hr departments which are not typically risk seeking and also not typically early on in the adoption curve for new things and so that was just a very slow process like we're talking about you know a 100 to 150 a month cost to a small business would take them you know six months to a year to make a decision on that and it was one of those like just dragging along drag along drag along and and so kind of transition into your second point about there's obviously other players in the space and that's where we have really hyper focused our niche so we are what's considered an asynchronous video interview tool so right now we're doing a synchronous video podcast but a synchronous video meetup right it's you and i together chatting back and forth with each other whereas our platform is you know hey devin set up three to five questions you want candidates to respond to on their own time desktop laptop tablet you know whatever time of day from wherever and then the responses those videos come back to you as the hiring manager recruiter business owner and you get to review them on your own time so we are hyper focused as an asynchronous video interview tool that helps mid-market small-to-mid market companies uh a part of the hiring process and so you know we're where you know there are pro products like zip recruiter linkedin these are allocation of people and companies looking to hire and we are a we are a tool or a feature a part of that process that helps make that whole process more efficient and so we've really and it's again it's taken freaking five years for us to get here but we have really focused on that niche and so ultimately like our pitch is like oftentimes we end up replacing the early stage of a phone screen and we can justify the math of why in the first you know week you're gonna you're gonna generate the roi that you need on our software that's where we've really really focused if that if that's making sense makes perfect sense so you do that now yeah you niche down and what and we're going off a bit of a tangent from your um your full journey but i find it interesting just because you know you niche down you know because what one of the fears and what i see with a lot of businesses is you you have the fear of niching down too much right you're gonna say we're leaving money on the table you know we're not we're missing out on potential customers or clients and that and so we got to be kind of everything to everybody and so was did you guys start out that way did you always have your niche or did you say hey a niche is better or are you guys now saying hey we've niched down now we're going to expand back out or kind of give me an idea because i think that's where a lot of you know starters and small businesses worry about a niche not because they don't like the niche but because they're worried they're not going to have enough money or sales or they're not they're going to miss out on customers it's a great question so what did i say we're five years in we are 4.8 years of the trying to be everything to everybody really within the last like quarter maybe half a year we have finally understood our niche in the market that we serve and we're making 10 times more money than we were before we chose to do that which you don't really think about it that way and i had to go through that the hard way i as i've alluded to incredibly scatterbrained idea let's go do that idea let's go to that oh we could service this customer in this way which is different than this customer in that way and you end up being like a generalist and you're not good at doing anything for anybody whereas now we are hyper focused at doing a very good job for our niche customer base fortunately we also got really lucky with kovid because everything shifted remote everything shifted towards video and our product naturally was a benefit you know benefactor to that style of transition and so that's been super helpful but you know it's it's it's a grind trying to focus and it's as typically as a founder you're not that focused you're often thinking about different ideas and different things that you can start and so to me it's really taken like honing in on our team bringing some people in who can support us to maintain that level of focus which has been super helpful so no and you're you're preaching the choir so i i'm answering a question that i certainly have a biased opinion in a little bit the same thing when i started miller ip i came out of some major law firms you know i did patents and trademarks for all the big companies of an amazon and an intel and a red hat and a lot of those other companies and you know i came in and i'm i'm saying you know there's a lot of intellectual property law firms out there and they do a good job there's you know it's hard to just say we do it better than everybody else we're more skilled than everybody else because there's a lot of good people in most industries that they really just say we do it the best is a hard statement to make and hard to get people to agree to but if you find that niche and say hey we are you know as myself as an example in my firm we focus on startups and small businesses and that was a niche you know crazy as it sounds you're singing patents and trademarks you know a lot of businesses are starting small businesses but you you look at the legal industry and most law firms want to go for the big whales they want to go for the big companies and so i completely agree with it when we niched down really focused on that and said what can we do now we can still offer multiple services or multiple products within that but our niche is we're focusing on our startups and small businesses sure if we have other companies that want to come in and use our services and they and it doesn't defocus us we may take them on but we're not going to start to change from what we're doing and so preaching to the choir i think is a great you know great niche that you guys have found and certainly within coven makes sense so now as you're looking to the future what's the next you know next year or six months to a year and you kind of alluded to that but what kind of where are you guys now that you found your niche where are you headed yeah it's a great question and just to touch base on that video interviewing companies think the same same way apparently as law firms because the other players that we compete with are often going after the fortune 500 the fortune you know 5000 companies which is great because you can sign a 100 to 200 to 300 000 contract whereas we're dealing in like you know 250 to 300 a month range right you have to sign a lot of those to make up for the one contract now the nice thing about us is that there's not a lot of players playing in that small to mid market because everybody's going upstream and it's small businesses is the largest market in the world right there is plenty of businesses to go service and i'm sure you've realized that too it's massive and so go ahead one one thing i think is interesting it also gives you a bit of diversity in the sense that you know you look at the the market now let's say one of the big businesses they slow down they can't make the money you can say our biggest contract goes away now we have to lay off half of it whereas hey if you work with a whole bunch of yes it is harder to find or it takes more a little bit more work to get them all on board but once you do you've got a much more diverse clientele that hey if one slows down it none of them make up enough of our business that anyone is going to make here make it that if they don't if they go away we have to close up shop type of a thing so i think it gives you a bit more of a diversity and it probably sets you up that you can weather a lot more storms yeah it's one of those like the especially in hr it's it's a tough nut to crack because you're dealing with a ton of smoke but the nice thing is once you're in hr in our circumstance once you're in hr you're the churn is super low people love you they stick around they're loyal and so it takes a little bit of time but once you once you break into that that you know demographic of people incredibly supportive not a lot of hr companies at this firm in that firm are competing with each other so they make intros and so it's one of those things that you know it's a slow growth path but once you break it you can kind of build that big you know flywheel cycle and so on that note to your question about what's next um you know we we are in a spot where we are not the entire hiring suite we are a feature or a product that helps supplement that whole process and so for us it's partnering with other organizations that do tackle that small to mid-market company range and so we've got some great partners that offer what's called an applicant tracking system or a solution to their customers and we would integrate our tool with them so that their customers get video interviewing and we obviously get exposure to more customers or we're partnering with background check companies or assessment providers where we're all a part of that pre-screen of the hiring space and we can benefit from partnering with each other and pass clients back and forth and so you know our big initiative um as far as just growth is continuous continuing down the path of partnerships which is phenomenal um you know and as far as like the product growth we are in a spot where uh we we believe that we're the easiest to use product in the market and our customers and candidates are also validating that and so continuing to know who we are and to say hey we could go down the path of being we could build that we could build this we could build that but at the same time the people who use our product and pay for our product love how simple and easy it is and so continuously just improving that cycle for candidates and companies um is is our major focus for the next 12 months and so obviously it's growing the business and continuously growing but that's you know those three things between partnerships keeping the product easy and simple and seamless and then just growth is is our focus all right no i think that's a great trajectory and a great place to take it so well as we start to wrap up the the podcast i always have two questions that i ask at the end of the podcast we'll jump to those now so the first question i'll ask is what was the worst business decision you ever made and what did you learn from it um it's it's one of the worst and also best decisions because of the lessons that i learned but hiring friends is really hard and i i brought on a partner early stage who was a friend in school um i have hired friends as sales people um and i've gone through that experience and when things are going well you know you you you work out together you take meetings together you know you hang out and grab beers together you know life is good when things are going bad it's one of the most ugly personally things that can happen and even if it's a good you know transition out it's still hard right and so i had to go through the process of just you know i've done that multiple times and you would think i'd learn my lesson and um you know it's one of those things that i i'm an incredibly trusting person and i and not to say anything people did anything distrusting to me but it's one of those things where it's like oh that's a great idea you're talented and i know you so why don't you come join the company and and that's one of those things that you know every entrepreneur and every ceo and every business owner goes through as you you no matter how much you're focused on the business you still are a person who cares and sometimes that can be a little muddy water when it's a friend or a relationship that's then stepping into business and so you know i would say not one moment in particular but i've just you know personally had some issues and some struggles with that and obviously learning and you know being forgiven and also asking forgiveness when i make mistakes as well too but that's definitely been a challenge for sure no and i agree with you in the sense now i think that's one of the things every no matter how good you think oh i know people or i'm the exception or you know i can i can tell people you know i can hire the perfect candidate every time within the 30 seconds you know i think hiring family and friends it comes with a bittersweet you know them you know who they are you know their skills and yet it's a lot harder to lay off or to have the the business discussion of hey when this isn't working out or we need that you need to adjust things it always makes it hard so it kind of has both of those dynamics but i think it's one where you know it it adds another layer when you're having to deal with somebody that you're friends with outside of work because now you're having to say how do we have those non-friend conversations that are focused on the business so i i certainly can see where that's a mistake and also something to learn from yeah second question that i always ask is now you're talking to somebody that's just getting into startups just getting into small businesses what would be the one piece of advice you'd give them meet with two new people three new people four new people a week as many people as you possibly can people i have found that uh people absolutely love to support business owners and um it's still one of the reasons why i think america is such an amazing and great country is because entrepreneurship is such a foundation for what was this was this whole country was built on and so to me um i i have seen so many times somebody who just wanted to support me as a young entrepreneur trying to build something and i would encourage anybody who wants to start a business or even not even just take their career to the next level meet new people constantly and that's why i try to say yes to nearly everything i can if somebody wants to chat with me great if somebody you know and and that's what i did when i was in college and in that transition time of getting wedge off the ground it was how many professors can i sit down with how many alumni can i sit down with how many friends or people that i don't know can i sit down with and just learn and i mean selfishly you never know who they know right and so you can you know certainly there's some financial benefits to that but that's not the point of it the point of it is to say you can continuously grow a network you can hone your skills of communication you can learn from different perspectives and so i think it's a simple one it's not easy but i would say it's a simple one to just meet as many people as you can you you would be shocked and then the last piece of that is follow follow up right and and you meet somebody and six months later just send them a text say hey i read this book and i was thinking about you or i was on this podcast or i was thinking about you or listen to this or whatever it means that's what that's what i think takes networking to the next level it's not hey you know devon we sat down we chatted for this one time but let's talk in six months you know even if there's no like business transaction happening just building that that's what i think that's what a network is no i agree and i think that and that's even if i were to jump even even again clients and customers is maintaining that costing or constant contact and the network whether it's hey is this people that you've ma ran into you never know who's going to be the connection that you know they will help you out on that next you know that next phase or become a client become in contact or anything else and so it's not just meeting the person the first time but i like how you said you know it's a follow-up it's the actual maintaining that connection as opposed to hey i met you once if you can't help me out then we're done and i'll move on to the next one because that's not really building a network so was people now want to reach out to you they want to get no get to know you more they want to be your friend they want to be your employee they want to be your investor they want to use your service they want to be your customer client any or all of the above what's the best way to connect up with you yeah so pretty active on linkedin so just matt baxter on linkedin feel free to uh add me and i'll try to connect with as many people as i can and then um if you want to just reach out to me directly my email is just matt wedgehr.com um matt wedgehr.com so and that's where the company name is wedgehr so all right well perfect well i certainly encourage everybody to reach out to you on linkedin or on your website um great i think it's a great service and what you guys are trying to do and it's been a fun fun to talk a little bit about your journey thank you for having me awesome now for all of you that are listeners if you uh if you have your own journey to tell always feel free to reach out to us and apply to be on the podcast just go to inventivejourneyguest.com love to have you on and hear a journey if you're a listener make sure to click subscribe so you hear all the new episodes as they come out and lastly if you ever need any help with patents and trademarks feel free to reach out to us at miller ip law we're always here to help thanks again matt it's been fun to hear a journey and wish you the next leg of your journey even better than the last thank you so much English (auto-generated) All Sales Related From Miller IP Law Recently uploaded