Take Every Opportunity That You Can
The Inventive Journey
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Take Every Opportunity That You Can
"Being a certified minority-owned, women-owned, certified vet-owned, certified WHATEVER YOU CAN DO, if you have the opportunity, I would grab it." In this podcast for entrepreneurs and businesspeople, listen to the Inventive Journey of a powerful entrepreneur as she shares her biggest tips and experiences as she has started multiple startups.
The Inventive Journey
Starting and growing a business is a journey. On The Inventive Journey, your host, Devin Miller walks with startups along their different journeys startups take to success (or failure). You also get to hear from featured guests, such as venture firms and angel investors, that provide insight on the paths to a successful inventive journey.
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for me again being a certified minority owned or certified women-owned certified that own certified whatever you can do if you have that opportunity to do it I'd grab it all right hey everybody this is Devin Miller here and welcome to another episode of the inventive journey I'm your host Devin Miller I am a patent and trademark attorney that focuses on helping startups and small businesses also a serial entrepreneur so we we had the been tough journey to create a great community for everybody that listens and wants to be here is in startups and small businesses today we have a fun guest on today Anita Meena has a great story to tell so high in people she is everything from went to Berkeley to AT&T to getting undergraduates to work the ability now working with their start at their husband for the the third startup which is that that's the accomplishment of myself I think if I were to tell my wife she wants to be part of my startup she would say you're on I'll support you but you're on your own I don't want to do a start so that's quite the accomplishment of yourself so welcome to the podcast Thank You Devin thank you for hosting me but I gotta tell you you know Bob and I have been married 33 years we met at UC Berkeley at students in the 1980s we were both interning at Bank of America and their telecommunications department I was coding he was working on home banking and installing ATM machines back then so 33 years three companies two kids come on that's a pretty good track record that is a great track record so isolations to you I didn't know myself 33 years of marriage is awesome to kids is awesome multiple start ups is great so it'll make for a great journey so why don't you take us back a little bit you kind of introduced you and your husband met you know back when you were working there working at the same employer but maybe take us back to your journey of kind of wente startup absolutely well I guess a for me I had the privilege I'm here in the San Francisco Bay area I had the privilege of attending UC Berkeley starting at age 15 way back in 1978 for those of you who are looking at your you know calendars and turn the fear at how old I am 57 so I had the privilege of going to Berkeley back then and I'm already jumping in because that's an accomplishment so 15 it was last I checked or I remember I didn't graduate till 18 and that was just because I was lucky to graduate I did buy it but so how did you get into Berkeley at 15 where you did you apply early are you a genius or how did that happen I am none of those things programs that targeted folks like me men women of all ages colors genders we had an opportunity to start taking classes initially over the summers then on weekends and then eventually concurrently while we were still in high school it's a program that no longer exists and I'm excited that it exposed me into economics and an early age it exposed me to boolean algebra and every age and got me really excited about technology I ended up on a path because again being privileged to be at Berkeley and also being able to work I ended up starting at AT&T in their engineering department at age 17 when I did get that high school diploma and worked there in the summers until I transitioned the Bank of America so I've always been fortunate to be able to take advantage of just awesome opportunities and organizations finding me honestly to expose me to technology early on but again I'm sitting here in Silicon Valley so what else would we expect an accomplished athlete to come out and find folks like me and say hey we want you to be an engineer let's start exposing you what you need to do to be successful in that regard and I loved it I embraced it I ran out and spent the next six decades working in technology space because it's my passion and it's how we can change the world so I'm excited in this moment to be able to start it at Berkeley to be able to finish my majors and economics and economics in the black community I finished my MBA I've finished working through school as a telecom engineer and went right into AT&T executive training program so I did not work for Bell Labs Devon what I did do is I was working with the systems infrastructure so they could provision broadband for those of us older folks back in the late 80s one phone and one number I worked with Bill abs to build the infrastructure so the phone companies around our nation could track multiple devices introduced data at the first implementations of ISDN with what we would call broadband into places like city of Fresno and JPL apps down in Southern California so having built that large infrastructure AT&T transitioned me eventually into large strategic and financial roles so the privilege of defending the first markets in which they faced competition and my response to that was hey let's optimize and then let's exit the business as a cash cow said the company I worked for was actually called Pacific Bell and we sold it to a company called SBC now known as AT&T so I started in a technical excuse me technical field in the strategy and Finance left AT&T and went to companies like Levi Strauss was at UC Berkeley I was in an aeg company and i was finally at a company called quantum many of you may know it as CJ it is a it is a hardware manufacturer of memory I was a director there overseeing the three and a half billion dollar business in the year 2000 when my engineering husband's company was acquired for three and a quarter billion dollars so I quit my job and the reason I did I wouldn't do that to you if I ever got close to that kind of an exit I'd be quit my job only I wouldn't have got into another startup others said hey I'm taking a break for a year or two years go and see the world there's something enjoyable I didn't break okay I took a nice break that happened in the year 2000 I found it in 14th but here he is what if that company had a program like an EVA in which they offered FBI background check trusty care available to me maybe they would have had a professional woman stay in the organization absolutely I was the most senior african-american in that company similarly in places like levi-strauss where I was in a particular role as a woman as a person of color but let's ignore those things and focus on the I was an excellent contributor and leader and made their business better and that's why my career grew so one of the reasons we introduced only become searched care is just that had they made that available I may have kept that job I love my job I love contributing I love being a parent of you not familiar with the San Francisco Bay Area I'm sitting here in Oakland in the town in which I live where my bin son and now two children and my mother are live near here or in the city we work in Silicon Valley forget distance time with traffic it's a two-hour commute so when you worry as a parent and now as a child with an 85 year old blind mom but I also care for her that ability to make sure that trusted care is there if it's not me I'm always first but I have to be able to work and I have to be able to take care of my family and until I can have those needs met I simply couldn't be my best most authentic self and be my most productive self so that's why we built on Eva comes here to care because I'm not the only person forget that I'm a woman they're men who provide care as well but we all know 10,000 baby boomers are retiring every single day we all know that because of the wonderful accomplishments of medical technology we're seeing people who are able to live years longer than they may have hope we're able to see the most amazing people survive and thrive I have two adult autistic niece and nephews 44 and 46 years old um one is extremely autistic and needs care even for simple functions such as going to the bathroom yep I function that we have them here at home now because their facilities are closed all day we are still excited that we have access to care because we work with essential service providers who meet the needs of the requirements of the state of California that's how we're able to work we are regulated by the Department of Social Services and we ensure we comply with all those regulations we're excited and and pleased that those folks can continue to be in the home that's how I'm able to be here with you right now somebody's with my blind 85 year old mom so that I can be in the office and take the time to talk that's a great service and I think that's a great great thing to focus on so that's awesome that you win from husbands or husbands company got acquired had a good exit now to looking to how to serve and to help others I'm gonna back up just low because we almost jumped to the end and we missed part of the middle which is always the interesting part so that was your was out now that were you because you said he worked with your husband for three startups so this one I'm assuming the third startup is the one you guys are at now is that right this is number three number three so what were the other two startups II worked with your husband and then we'll jump to the end which is also good to talk about or the other two startups you work with your husband oh we're going way back for you Devin the first one in 1988 we finished we did a PC fax cart business plan so we actually contemplated going into the hardware market some of you may not know what a fax is FAS but if you work with the government and you any earn an IP attorney you're working with the government you got one of those old machines you don't really that's the only time I've ever used the fax in my career so called it an examiner I'll say okay I can either email us to here which like it backs and if there's the older examiner said oh can you please fax it to me I'm like I gotta go figure out how to use a fax again but I have used the fax well can you and I said we had a PC that would work directly from that device back in 1988 we actually chose not to execute that one and shocked a few folks but we didn't Bob Bluth the startup route and I went to 18 t the big company row second company we started back in 1999 was called what's next and I love that name and should have sold it because it mate would have made more money from it than from the company I learned some really great lessons with that failure and I shouldn't even call it a failure because I learned such a great lesson it was meant to be a site kind of like career builder a place you can go and you can find out about jobs and salaries or a glass door you know as we entered the year 2000 again folks of my age may remember that we had an Internet bus yep dot-com bubble but not only did we have a dot-com bubble imagine Anita and Bob started business working with people to help them initially writing their resumes and get them into a monster kind of thing didn't jobs they didn't have money they loved our work products but they didn't pay so one of the biggest lessons I learned is that the third business we started we have customers who could afford to pay it that is always an important thing as much as that you can have the best company but if you don't have paid clients it doesn't it doesn't tend to matter hey I'm just saying you know forget the ten years at Berkeley forget the NBA out of Haase it took starting a business to realize hey I got great customers who love what I do you know we all learn things you know even here at our third company on Eva we've pivoted several times great I mean so and again I describe what's next is a failure absolutely not we learned so much and it helps informed us for this third opportunity that we have and we never would have made it here not for that so in this moment you know again learnings along the way you know we started out with a consumer platform offering this care you know FBI background track trusted care by compliant workers consumer space we were growing it was great but then we had we won a competition called best start Silicon Valley and 15 and we had companies like thin limit Japan and a company called Intel come to us and say build an enterprise-grade GDP are compliant version of that platform or privacy secure platform and will award you a contract we thought that was exciting and we stopped providing services to consumers so because we almost jumped so boniva you guys started out as basically kind of and correct me where I'm wrong be able to help people in home care so if you have either kids or elderly people somebody that has needs and you want to take care of while the you know the parents or other people are out working and doing it doing an income initially I think you said started as a can consumer-facing thing to where people could come to you directly and look for hiring on care hiring on helpers or hiring on you know whether who had whatever their need of and then he's talking about then you pivoted more to almost a B to B to C or an enterprise version for companies to provide that to their employees is that about right it is absolutely about right you should be on this side of the camera absolutely got it that was a huge pivot and the reason that's a huge pivot is because those consumers were paying revenue and once you say we're going to make a decision to pivot that means you walk away from that week over week revenue growth I hope you win that competition called best startup Silicon Valley because there's no way you say hey I'm going to grow and build a 100 thousand a million consumers and then smooth them all over we know that's not how technology works if you want to deliver an exceptional service the other thing that we learned is because again we comply with all laws and regulation including background check in California is a living background check it's a 1987 regulation called trust line and can you imagine my shock in 2013 to learn that no other marketplaces chose to comply with that 1987 requirement and it's living FBI background check that means if the caregiver commits a crime DUI elder abuse check fraud they're off my platform and not in your home we chose to comply with that requirement when no other marketplace hat and that sort of struck us is a little bit odd we also have laws here in California that center around their workers and what's a gig worker and how we comply and I'm Eeva because we are so focused on ensuring our workers comply so that we take on that risk of a technology around needing to know if a caregiver needs to have a massage insurance to give you a massage I don't want you to have oh that's gonna come up here in your smartphone you know I didn't even know there was such a thing as massage insurance so that's I learned stuff to do right there so but that's just it it's our job to make sure you only are treated by folks who meet the laws and state in your region in your community so hard to do that so did you was that part of the original platform when you're doing it to consumer-facing or is that what part of the pivot when you went to be more of the concierge is that that's what they required or that's what took to get in just wasn't quite clear on that timing and that's what we were doing what we needed to do was to get to enterprise great security standards gdpr but absolutely it's what we were doing and it was realizing our friends at Microsoft who we've been working with since December 10 2014 specifically fret till the general manager benefits you know having him come in and weigh in and say you've got something pretty awesome here then having the head of benefits Intel saying I want you to build an enterprise great version then handiness requirements to build a system and then taking them back to Fred at Microsoft to say okay let's build it and then let's pilot it on three thousand Microsoft employees in 2017 and get their feedback which gave us and we learned so much we spent 2018 in early 2019 rebuilding all the technology because things like native apps certain didn't exist as they had in 2014 and technology had evolved GPR other security requirements that come along so it was the right thing to do again at the end of 2018 after we worked with those three thousand Microsoft employees to shut down and build the right set of tech that meets the needs of the consumers whether that's you the employee customer Devon giver who would use the oliva Pro app or the a charger we're like Fred tail at Microsoft who would use the his laptop to see which services are being used anonymized employee data reporting data he'd be able to send us his eligibility file so we would know which Microsoft employees when they do so get subsidy for example if you are a director or you receive stock options at some companies at Microsoft you don't get subsidized care or subsidized medical but others will you know Microsoft frit to share with me Microsoft owns a company called LinkedIn but some of us have heard of that many of us know my voice a few people a few but did you please get 2,000 a year to spend on care and gym membership I did not know that so as Fred til thinks about his 130,000 Microsoft employees as well as his new LinkedIn employees hmm think about how to bring some parity so what better way to do that then with an enterprise-grade GDP are compliant certified minority-owned technology platform that he helped Bill since 2014 so we're pretty excited to be able to go back to you know Fred who's with us always our team at Microsoft their team at Oracle we were the only company who's completed Oracle's Protege program as a minority supplier because we are certified as minority owned by the western region minority supplier diversity Council that's what that's about for right there wrm SDC that's how we gain access into awesome companies like Microsoft and it's because of that Fernando Hernandez who is their director of diversity supplier diversity at Microsoft he oversees about 4 billion in spending with minority women owned that own LG pqt own companies like own IVA senior advisor and own even has been since 2015 so as you say no go ahead go ahead yep he made all of our sales introductions into awesome company so we got a great pipeline deferring to you sir oh no I just so it sounds like the pivot it was obviously a good good new bid successful was a great idea but how did you cuz I mean so I'll set it up I was so I like to read books and particularly usually if I have I like to read books I wish I had a lot more time to read books but what I do have time to read books I usually end up in my wife voice makes noise like you always like to do business and that anyone you read books you read business books and I'm like well it's just what I enjoy so but I like to read business books one of the recent books I read was that will never work and it's kind of about Netflix and how they started up and how they got in and one of the the founders mark Randolph was one guy that originally a CEO and you always hear Hastings which is now the guy that's always in the news and that Randolph was the one that regionally the idea and he you know his Hastings told him hey that will never work as he was pitching ideas back off but they started out if you know I'll know I'll date myself not quite as far back but they started out much more in DVDs right so the original company was all in DVDs and sending DVDs in the mail and then they ended up making a pivot to where most people know Netflix today is streaming but they almost had to make that to say and they're part of it was as they saw Amazon was going to eventually quote it wrote into what was the DVD and mailing whether they could probably keep a better market in reoccurring revenue with with streaming as opposed to DVDs but they almost shut down they there most of their income was all from the DVDs at the time they basically made the decision hey we're going to go all-in on the streaming the damn didn't shut it all the way down but they really move their focus to the what would be the streaming and it was a big jump so how did you kind of move on those lines when you're going from consumer based or its consumer directly going to be to be what was that transition or how did you make that decision boy there's a lot not man there's so many factors that come into a decision of that magnitude and say something that may be a little controversial may get me a little bit of trouble here okay but I'm gonna speak as an expert who has a patent for creating trust and safety in the in home care market right and and being a CEO for six years in chairman of the board I am so grateful not only that I had the privilege of the academic experience which taught me things like my four peas in my three C's product price promotion in a placement or my channel distribution customer cost competition I had this great academic start then I had the privilege of learning operational infrastructure from a company like AT&T BM a Wells Fargo I spent time in as an engineer seeing how they operate and how they leverage systems in the decision making to evolve from that into a strategy and financial rule again and some of the you know biggest brands that we may have heard all across industries like Levi's etc where I was leading planning and finance across up to eight companies you know in different places I just feel really blessed to have a lot of skills and a lot of exposure to a lot of different things you really have to see how they all touch right there everything exists together your operations and your technology and your marketing and your everything comes together and touches and I know just a little bit of enough about all those to be dangerous the other thing I have that's really helpful in these moments as you ask I have an amazing team of advisors who each have to bring more than money to be an advisor and an investor in my company so I've talked about Fernando as an example he his responsibility he helped me build my enterprise sales pipeline and he has since 2015 helped me to fundraise and he so if you go out and you were to Google me you'd see Fernando and I doing investor interviews we have folks like Christie a author of blitzscaling along with a guy by the name of Reed Hoffman co-founder of LinkedIn who's a repeat investor and my go-to guy he you know blitzscaling so we had the father of how do you grow really quickly and rapidly while we were making these tough decisions and building so wait were they on the board or your advisors when you were still doing the b2c or direct to customers or did you go to them or do they join after I just tried to get the ideas I mean that's great Nate or you know a lot of great advisors and descrying to think if I could go ask them hey what should I do that would be so great advice so did they help you to make the decision and were they on did they come on after they came on as the decision were being made they loved it and especially when the decision comes to you again head of Intel at the time Ogden says hey go build this for me and your certification and then they have the Fred teal who general manager benefits at Microsoft who had left Intel as their head of benefits to go to Microsoft you got some pretty important players in the market who understand the benefits face who are elevating your idea I fiction that we also had representatives from universities in Finland as well as representatives from Japan Germany and a number of other countries at that point approached us so at that point we had a significant amount of what I would call external push to make the pivot what was challenging about it again you turn off revenue you walk into the long deadly desert no money and you generally don't attract a lot of investors usually investors like companies that make buddy it's crazy there you go so imagine we finish a pilot with Microsoft in 2017 when we're making money they spent $700 per month on average with no subsidy they requested 40% requested three or more services and 3% signed up on day one you know so we thought about gee those 70,000 employees in Seattle if three percent sign up on day one you know we have to look at our technology and we had to admit I mean let's face it we had other folks to look at like lyft and uber who never make money you know make money and we make money we go cashflow positive with 500 or so customers in a region I mean we can drop right now whether I'm in Dublin Ireland or Seattle or Salt Lake City and we have one customer in Salt Lake City who'd love to see us there when potential so you know we can make our technology available anywhere within about 90 days and in part because we have an amazing relationship with the Church of Latter day Saints and they help us find awesome amazing care givers through their existing infrastructure so we feel pretty blessed since 2014 to work with amazing partners whether it's the enterprises with Microsoft or Intel or Oracle or a fruit company in Cupertino with some amazing folks in the caregiving space in the LDS community as well as community colleges here in California are awesome places we have about a hundred community colleges here that are focused on creating home health aid workers so we have always targeted and built relationships with those entities because we want to serve their needs and we want to help them succeed and be successful so we're excited whether it's the customer and Microsoft employee customer the caregiver or the enterprise we've been out in market with them listening to them and that's in part what took us so long because those are three different sets of technologies that had to be built and then we integrated and as startup founders many of us are given the bad advice we'll just get a crappy enough product out into the market I think that depending on your product on your market that you work but when your customer is a Microsoft employee will arguably one of the best technologists in the world it's not my best interest to go and with a crappy product that's yo you'll hit on that night I always always look at it always drives best because I hear it all the time and I did an MBA school as well you'll hear minimal Viable Product and that term always is like it's kind of like that I always feel like we'll put out the crappiest product do you think somebody will buy I always liked it more why don't we go the maximal viable product look at what we can do within our resources and constraints and put out the best product we can rather than the worst so I I completely agree on that one absolutely absolutely and based on what people are willing to pay even though I say we shut down you know we opened back up in 2019 on a very small scale and started taking in customers every iteration of our platform that's out there I have paid customers on it and small number because I got to make sure that its meeting somebody's needs the best way to get real feedback is to check my account at the end of the month and that's how we determine if we're doing something right out there in the market and now that we're in a place where we're just growing we've on board it three companies we did companies two and three today since March we're excited to be able to grow and we're excited that that growth comes in part through a relationship with a company called Accra sure the ninth largest insurance provider here in the US we saw their contract with them in February while they have over 1,300 brokers who go out and sell their services to their different their benefits to different enterprises nationally we started here with about a hundred and two sales reps in the San Francisco Bay Area the largest footprint you can imagine nine Bay area counties plus two for more all the way into the Sacramento foothills the reason being that's where Oracle is and when the head of benefits at Oracle says I need to see you with a presence in my region that's that's our footprint right Microsoft Oracle fruit companies we managed to meet at leads of a footprint of some awesome folks we've been collaborating with for some time that we're excited to expose to the tech so is Ida right it's been crazy we've had successes we've had failures there's not been a period where we haven't gone oh no this thing's gonna die we've resuscitated this company more times I mean for those of you and if you're a space jams fan do you remember when the team was all banged up on the sideline and even Tweety pie you know that's the classic that's a great movie well that's our experience and for every founder you know I think you're right I think for almost every founder everybody always feels like a failure are usually multiple times and no matter how many highs you you always think okay now we're on an upward trajectory it over here and then you'll hit step on but you're like oh no we failed again so I could get that we could dive in and talk further I'm sure an hour it's boring I always get to the ends of the podcast I wish I had tens more time there's always so many things more to talk about but with that I'm going to start to wrap it up but I always like to ask two questions and at the end of the podcast so we'll end with those and then maybe sit another time we'll have to have you on and dive into a whole bunch more of the mud things but the first question is what was the worst business decision you ever made well I fear one already was to start a business with books and didn't pay me right as I started a business left my job invested a lot of money to build you know a business to help people connect to employers at a horrible time I couldn't control the dot-com explosion but I probably could have given a little bit more thought about ability to pay yeah that moment just you know but what I learned to do with business to from that failure I tested before I put up a lot of money you know when we started on Eva we just had a screen face we didn't have any back-end we launched an apart here in Oakland on us Saturday with a guy doing tricks from East Bay Regional Parks and he brought out some animals and things but I had a woman spend two hours with me explaining to me why she was willing to pay for care why it was so important and why she needed it in what her budget was two hours one woman I am idiot validation around pricing and ability to pay that holds to this day that woman and her passion is something I certainly didn't see from those folks who loved the resumes we were ready but not anus for so you know we took it and we adapted it and learned to test for revenue before we put out a lot of cash and before we got too far in the pipeline so you've seen us do that repeatedly over and over again you heard me talk about generating the six figures in revenue development I always got to get that rule or market feedback because I cannot afford to make that mistake know that I've raised 2.7 million dollars and I'm scaling you know across the state of California and hopefully other places now's not the time to introduce that kind of risk so I took that horrible horrible lesson and applied it I hope you can hear in many different ways not just where I build my business who do I lose my customer where I look for from my revenue but also what are the things that I think about in some of those early steps I put into place so that I can ensure success before an extensive cash outlay so there are lots of different things to learn from that kind of less oh yes so if I were to summarize all that the biggest mistake was don't try and sell product to customers that campaign is that a fair summary I'm gonna jump to my second question or my last question which is now if you're looking for people to want to get in startups one again small businesses or just starting out what would be your number one piece of advice you'd give up oh my gosh for me again being a certified minority-owned or certified women-owned certified that own certified whatever you can do if you have that opportunity to do it I'd grab it I'd love to tell you that I was able to begin to have these awesome relationships with some great brands you can imagine launching with a brand called Microsoft as a customer is a great position to start from and they haven't had bill that you know fortunately everybody doesn't have access to that but a lot of folks sure do inclusivity these days covers lots of different people what it gives you it gives you access they got me access to Microsoft and Microsoft took me into and group called tech underscore scale underscores that line on the bottom of you know the page it was chaired by nino campos at oracle and Alex Alvarez at Apple and its members are the 32 largest companies in the US so by virtue of being certified it gave me access since 2015 to start selling into some pretty awesome brands and brand names so for those of you who have that opportunity to get that I say go out and get it and you would be amazed at how that might help you grow your business on a go-forward basis in terms of access to potential customers in our case we're also a Microsoft fast track startup company I get I think I got one hundred and twenty thousand dollars in free assure credits as we scale Microsoft engineers to tackle and tap my technology platform and verify it works as build all those benefits can come to companies if you're certified you don't have to be certified to be a Microsoft startup company and reach out to me and happy to tell you more about all right well I will let them if people want to know more about that that's a great weight reason for them to reach out so great great or great lessons learned from the failure great advice for those that are going to do startups and small businesses so both are both good answers to the questions I always ask so now with that I always want to end with how do people reach out to you so if they want to whether they're a business and wanting to connect up with you and use your service or they're wanting to get involved or they're wanting to be a caregiver whatever what's the best way to reach out to you I am Anita and own even calm a and ITA IDO neva o in ev8 comm please find me you can find our website own Eva calm there's a telephone on it you can always dial you can find me by directory 897 one three oh five three we are always looking for all that you described always looking for new investors in this moment particularly as we contemplate that scale always looking for new enterprises who want to be a part of a Niva concierge care especially in the moment of coronavirus as we think about we need to work for our employees and what level of trust and safety they need I can tell you we are talking to some large companies who are looking at things like having employees returning shifts some companies having employees return Monday Wednesday Friday Tuesday Thursday Saturday you know schedules different eight-hour shifts so we're excited that we are flexible enough in our technology design and workers who have been decimated because by coronavirus are increasingly available some of the most talented teachers bus drivers and others who had otherwise been working in different roles right now are unable to do so are now available to help bring care to employees at customers where those employees live and that's what excites me creating living wage job opportunities in those communities where your employees live and to do that in collaboration with the church the Church of Latter day Saints and will as others and to be able to bring such amazing communities together we connect people to bring care together make sure they get a living wage make a tiny bit of profit for us and go forward so thank you for the opportunity Devin to be here today I am excited to be an inventor if you let me come back I'll share my second patent I'm a iRobot video director all those beautiful care giver videos have to get made and without human intervention as mentioned we are not your grandfather's Oldsmobile we are not lyft we are not over we're focused on cash flow profitability and ease and customer uses scaling quickly thank you so much for the opportunity to be here today and share my story and to share my product I hope I get to see you in person and Utah when we take on customers and think well thank you I appreciate that and I look forward to with you guys establish the headquarters out in Utah that then we'll have to meet up them there at least live meet up then so that would be great so thank you sir and your you're an Eagle Scout so you you have to be honest I should be honest no I always try to be anyways that's awesome well thank you for coming on for those of you that are in the podcast if you're interested in being a guest on the podcast feel free to check us out of the inventive journey comm we'd love to hear your story in your journey and for those of you that are needing help as you're getting going with your startups and small businesses feel free to go to Miller IPL comm for any patents or trademarks needs so thank you great call him thanks for the great day thanks for coming on it was fun to have you and we'll have to check back in in the future and see how the journey is going you got it so you will have a great day thank you be blessed bye everybody thank you you English (auto-generated) All Recently uploaded Watched