How To Create Content For Social Media
Makenzie & Joshua Jamias
The Inventive Journey Podcast for Entrepreneurs
How To Create Content For Social Media
The Inventive Journey
Starting and growing a business is a journey. On The Inventive Journey, your host, Devin Miller walks with startups along their different journeys startups take to success (or failure). You also get to hear from featured guests, such as venture firms and angel investors, that provide insight on the paths to a successful inventive journey.
Get New Episodes
Get 2 brand-new podcast episodes sent to you every week!
ai generated transcription
Get your website up and figure out your sales process. Because I think that's been the hardest, hardest businesses to work with is when they don't have a clear sales process. So we can get you all the web traffic you need and want, right? Like we can set up ads, we can do everything organically that we know how. But if you don't have a way to close, then it's all for not So figure out your sales process, figure out how you close people figure out like, yeah, like what you actually need to do to increase revenue. And then it's like the most agency owners that that are good at what they do, we'll help you figure out those channels to amplify your sales process.
Hey, everyone, this is Devin Miller, here with another episode of The inventive journey. I'm your host, Devin Miller, the serial entrepreneur has grown several startups in the seven and eight figure businesses, as well as the CEO and founder of Miller IP law, where we help startups and small businesses with their patents and trademarks. And if you ever need any help with yours, just go to strategy meeting comm grab some time with us to chat. Now today we have a first we've had, in other episodes for the normal inventive journey we've had more than one people on but I think this is a first episode for expert episodes that we have two people on. So we have Mackenzie and Joss Josh, Joshua, Jim, Jim is and they're going to be chatting about a variety of topics. But a lot of them include kind of, you know, how do you write content and connect and have that kind of strategy behind your content, we'll also talk a little bit about photography and how you actually capture that. And then they'll also be a little bit maybe about social media platforms, how you choose between parlour clubhouse, or people leaving Facebook or not leaving Facebook and you know a lot of content creation for your business and how you choose what content to create. And then kind of what maybe rates for services if you're looking to have hire someone kind of what that might look like. So we'll have a lot of good conversation and go through over that as a quick plug their businesses, a gym is creative, just in case you want to look them up. So. And with that, welcome on the podcast, Mackenzie and Josh. Thanks for having us, Devon. So I gave kind of just a quick run through a bit of what we're going to chat about today are some areas of expertise. But before we dive into that, maybe each one of you just want to take a minute or two, just kind of give us a bit of your background or why you're an expert on this on this topic or why people should listen to you and why No, you're talking about. Because you could go first I'll
go first. Well, first of all, we're husband and wife team. So we kind of get the luxury of working together and living together too. Yeah, um, but we own device creative together, we do social media marketing and content marketing for your business. We have been working together for about four years now, this is our fifth year in business. And we exclusively do social media and like the organic side content creation of social media, which we really love doing. So we kind of have complementary skills. I'm the photographer and more of the visual person. And Josh does the other stuff.
Yeah, I started freelance writing, like in college, and it kind of happened by accident. So I literally I was going through public relations program. And I was just reading up because no one in my family was ever in marketing. And so everything was like all new. And so I was just reading like consuming anything I could. And it was like, hey, public relations, people know how to do social media, they know how to write. So I literally like created a website, put my first blog post tweeted it on my brand new Twitter account that I only had for like a year. And that's how I got my first freelance writing gig. Like I remember sitting in the library and someone replying to my tweet, and then from there became social media, social media marketing, and fast forward a few years later, and this is where we're at now. So it's been a fun journey. I think like what what keeps us in business really is like, realizing this, realize a lot of like, what we do for work isn't impossible. It's not hard to learn. But I just think there's some things that people would rather do than others. Same reason why we hire a tax accountant and a bookkeeper. Like, can we not learn how to do that? Like, is that impossible? No, it's not impossible, but it's just like our natural interest and skill sets move us towards marketing. And so that's where we're at. And that's how we're able to be in business.
Awesome. Let's definitely a fun tag team and a great way to get into it. So now jumping a bit into the expert experts side of it and talk a little bit about content. You know, maybe jumping into your first a little bit with you Josh, and you kind of get in If I understand that, you guys, you are kind of on the consecration and Mackenzie's on kind of the photography and making it look good, so to speak. And so we'll kind of tag team back and forth a bit. But maybe on the first side of you know, when you're looking at writing and content creation, kind of how do you develop a strategy? And how do you know what content great what to write on how to make it appealing and kind of how to make it so that it is worth You know, it has that return on investment, so to speak.
There's two questions that always come to mind. And these are the two questions that I asked myself and I asked, whoever we're working with is, number one, which problems are businesses paying me to solve? And what are the most frequently asked questions I receive? And so if you can answer those two things, your content will always be on track with your brand. And I've noticed, like when I saw a stat, something like just under 50%, of people who unfollow a brand, is simply because a brand is not sharing content that's consistent with what they do and what they're known for. And so if you can keep on, you can keep focus on like, Hey, you know, people pay me because I'm really good at mowing lawns, or people pay me because I can get them back after getting an injury and like they can start playing sports again. It's like, if you can answer those questions, then great. And then if you're like, Okay, I feel like I've already covered a lot of the frequently asked questions, we'll go down that list of your top 10 most frequently asked questions, and then maybe identify the top three that you get asked the most often, and then go deeper and break those topic topics down even more. Yeah, that's kind of the direction we take.
So you kind of start out first, let's generally answer each of the top 10 questions, kind of what are the ones that our clients are coming to you most of all, whatever your businesses, and definitely tailoring it to what your businesses are, what those needs are. But then once you get those top 10 questions, you get an article written on each day, and you start to branch out or expound on that and dive into some of the intricacies or some of the details or some of her something along that lines. And that's a good way to start out with a strategy. Is that about right? Yes, yes, you got that? Yeah. So now all right, that definitely makes sense. Now, I'm going to switch gears, and then we'll probably go all over the place. And I think it's fun to have a couple different people. So let's say you write the world's best content, you know, just, you know, a masculine worded perfectly, and then it's a, you know, a work of art, so to speak. And then how does photography play into that? I mean, so, you know, with you, Mackenzie, on the photography, are you trying to match it, you do more on the product images? And kind of with the look and the feeling when they're trying to sell? Or is it more on images that match up with the content? So you kind of have both sides are doing appealing? Or kind of when you're looking at a content strategy? How do you also make it visually appealing with photography?
Yeah, I mean, with social media, I feel like five years ago, like when we first started doing social media, I feel like it was content first, and then you look for photos after. And I feel like that's shifted now to you usually look for the visuals first. And then you write the captions to go along with the visuals. And so in a lot of social media, photography is mostly lifestyle imagery. So it's a lot of getting, getting pictures of people using your product, or in your business, or just some sort of human element, even if it's like a product, and you're just adding a hand holding the product. That's what people engage with the most on social media right now is the lifestyle images.
And so one question on that, and then on the photography, I think it overlays Well, the content as well. Because there is it is an important one, you know, whether it's whatever social media or you know, for sharing what your your product is, or trying to, you know, market it or so to speak or and getting eyeballs on it. Do you need to have the product in the pizza or picture meaning I see and I see a bowl Do you see some that are just simply the product picture you see some that are more lifestyle where you see the product somewhere in the picture. And then some you see kind of pictures that represent the product, but aren't necessarily the products not necessarily in there, meaning Hey, this is a lifestyle brand. Or maybe it's for backpacking or hiking. So you have the outdoors picture, but aren't necessarily the product. So how do you start this alag kind of which products fit you or your brand or kind of which ones you should be using do use a variety to use a whole bunch of use one kind of how do you start to figure out what is the imagery Do you want to present?
Yeah, I mean, it really just depends on the brand. Kinda like you mentioned, if it's an outdoor brand, you're going to get a lot more outdoor images, even if it's just like someone hiking and maybe you necessarily aren't even focusing on the product, but the actual, like landscape versus if you're, if you're a business if you're like a restaurant and someone has to come into your restaurant to eat, you're always going to use images of your food or up your physical location. So it really just depends on the type of business you are and like what you as a brand are wanting to portray to other people.
So now I'll ask a quick follow up question. How do you let's say, I don't know. I mean, in the sense that hey, I know what I obviously know my my goods or services I don't I'm product is, but I don't know what what to represent a client's I don't know what you know what will resonate and I hey, I may have, as you mentioned, let's say I'm a restaurant or I'm a law firm, or I'm an outdoors product, or I'm a plumber, you know, I don't know what I know what my services are. But I don't necessarily know which are how I want to represent myself, how do you start to figure that out?
Yeah, so I mean, let's take like a law firm, for example, you have to think about like, Kay, who's your customer, like, I feel like you really go back to your demographics of your customer. And think about what types of images that age group is looking for. If it's older people, you want older people in your images, if you're looking for younger people, you want all your images to exclusively have younger people in them, because you want people to be able to see themselves in that photo. And so if you're like, if you're, if you're a law firm, you want people smiling when they're you want people who like working with you, you see their face smiling, they see your face smiling, like, it's like capturing still images of you talking to clients. Kind of all of that like walking through the process of what it would be like for a customer to work with you and capture those images of that process.
Definitely makes sense. And I have a question for you, Josh. Just and I do have one more question on the recording. So I don't want you to feel like I believe in the out of the conversation. So one more question on the photography and is, you know, there's a couple different ways you can get images, you can obviously go and take their photographs, you can actually that you can also get a lot of stock photos, and a lot of you know, there's a lot of different services, any thoughts on whether you should be taking your own, you know, because I'll give you a couple thoughts on it. And that I definitely like everything, you know, stock photos, the problem with those is I I tend to see a lot of the same stock photos used over and over. There's some very, there's ones that are popular across the internet. And maybe there's a reason maybe they're they're popping up their resume that people are using them over and over. Or it could be that there's only so many good photos and they start to get worn out. So is there a benefit? Or is there a way to decide over there? Hey, I should go get an account with Adobe Stock or whichever one it is and use the stock photos versus Hey, we should take custom pictures and we shouldn't use our you know, use ourselves or other people who work for the firm or do that. Any thoughts on the air between those two? You definitely have an opinion? Well,
I mean, it's like you said, like, I feel like people recognize like, oh, I've seen that photo before, like another brand. And so we do what we do, so that like all of our clients do have their own custom imagery. And I do understand, I feel like if you don't have the budget for it, then stock images are great. Like, if you are starting your business, if you can't afford to hire a photographer to capture like your business yet. stock images are a great way to start. But then I feel like to really grow following on social media or to really brand your company, then you really need your own custom images of your business.
Okay, no, I don't I'd probably the it seems like there's a big mix. Sometimes you're able to use stock photos, or just use that. But a lot of times there's that custom touch and feel that, hey, if you're seeing the same images over and over, you're probably getting washed in with the rest of everybody and you're not really standing out. So I probably do tend to agree with you on that one. Now, question now is maybe switching gears a bit to Josh is, you know, there's a lot of different platforms that are coming up and available with content you know, some of them are tried and true. Facebook's been out for a while you have Instagram you have you know, Twitter and all those and then you also have new and up and coming ones with varying degrees of success and different focuses everything from parlor that's you know, had a bit of controversy to clubhouse that right now you can only do on the iPhone. So I blocked out because I have an Android to all of those. But how do you start to figure out what content to put on what platform and how to use which platform? And how do you choose which platform and kind of because it can be especially the startup or small business they can start to get overwhelming. And since there's a lot of platforms, all of them have a bit of a different focus. Twitter's not the same as Facebook, it's not the same as Pinterest. It's the same as Instagram. Not the same as WhatsApp not the same as parlor, not the same as clubhouse and they're all different. So how do you end you can't do them all unless you're a huge company that has a huge you know, marketing team hard to do at all and you may not have the return. So how do you even start to tackle which platforms to go after?
It goes back to like asking the right questions, right. So I think the question for this situation of like which social media platform should I use is which which networks or which platforms have the attention of my target audience
So right. Now let me ask you a follow up question. I'm sure you had an additional answer. Let's say I am a plumber, because I'm trying to think of just something that I owe you law for. But I tried to expand out. Let's say you're a plumber. How do I know if Twitter's i don't know i? Especially if you don't know who's where your market? I don't know if Twitter is a place for plumbers versus Facebook versus Instagram, Pinterest? Maybe not because it's kind of more crafty clubhouse, I'd maybe not parlor, I have no idea. So how do you start to figure that I wouldn't know as a plumber if I and I'm not a plumber. But if I were to get into that, how even start to kind of figure out where my audience is.
So okay, let's take the plumber case as an example. Right. So some things that you could assume as a plumber is, chances are if someone's hiring you as a plumber, they're probably a homeowner, or own some sort of property. Right, whether it's commercial or residential. So there's a few assumptions right there. And then you could probably also assume if you're a plumber that most people that are owning homes or owning properties are probably not 18 year olds. Right. So then you cancel out tik tok. So you you probably could still get some customers from tik tok, because the user base is getting older as we speak, moment by moment, but then you probably look okay. Like you said, Facebook's been around for a while. So Facebook would probably be a good place to start. In fact, Facebook's like fastest growing demographic is 60 years plus. So it's getting really old, which is why it gets pretty onry pretty quick, right? Like you look at all the posts and the arguments. It's like, like, a lot of the arguments is like, well, this is how we did it back in my day. So but you can also safely assume that like, some of these people probably are homeowners as well, because they probably bought their homes pre recession, and pre COVID. So so it's just like, yeah, trying to figure out like, so like, if you know your industry pretty well, then you can probably safely make assumptions as to where they're hanging out.
So now I'm gonna ask probably the hard question. I don't even know if there's an answer to it. If you're the kind of rapid fire say kind of if you were to have if you were to have to, and I'm boxing because you have to, but choose a top demographics are kind of the focus of each of the different platforms. And you have everything Tick tock, Twitter, Facebook, generally. And I know it's a generally a question, but kind of what demographics are on the different plot or all the various platforms? I think,
Okay, let's go to clubhouse because you brought that up a few times. So I spent like a lot of hours on clubhouse the other week, just kind of listening and jumping from room to room, I'd say club house, you can safely assume the bulk of them are millennials. People that just like want their voice heard. They're tired of all the imagery, and they just want to talk. Right? Um, Twitter, I think it would be safe to assume that you got anywhere from younger millennials to probably Gen X not so many boomers. Usually, they're like more tech focus, but they're not as focused on like video or pictures as a ton. Mostly like quick news blurbs, like Twitter is still one of the best platforms for finding real time updates. Facebook, I mean, Facebook obviously started off with a whole nother intended intention from what it is now. Facebook, it's like you definitely have a lot more boomers, a lot more people that are older than boomers, if they're still around. Less, it's pretty tech friendly for what it is. You still got millennials but Gen Z is not really touching it. And then Instagram probably has majority millennial parents, and some Gen Z so and then Tick Tock. I don't know if I already covered it. But yeah, tic tocs definitely has the highest attention when it comes to Gen Z. And and you know, I'll go ahead as well. So twitch Twitch is probably its own thing, too. But yeah, that's kind of the breakdown of the most common ones we get asked about.
Alright, know that that's helpful. Break them. Oh, Pinterest is really awesome to Pinterest is mostly women,
Pinterest, like I think more than 70% of their users make over 200k a year in terms of household income. And so if if you're selling consumer goods, Pinterest is probably the place to be because you don't use Pinterest if you're not going to buy something
interesting. All right, I am learning lots of plenty. There are plenty of fun things now. What are the couple of questions that kind of follow up on that you know, you have some platforms that are just kind of stay out of the news. They just chugging along and then you have other ones that are more controversial and I'll use parlors an example just because that one was a more recent one and I'm sure there are other ones and Facebook had their issues for a while with privacy and other ones is if you're but if you're looking at should you stay away from controversial platforms. They are in the news or controversy? Should you not, you know, don't want to be associated with them do people care? Or kind of any thoughts on if you're, I guess two questions, one, if they're controversial, or two, if they're up and coming, should you stay away from controversial ones? Should you dive in? And then the same thing? And if they're new and up and coming, and you don't know who the users are, should you hurry and jump? Because I mean, clubhouses, one that you know, I can I keep bringing that one up, just because an easy one is example. That was a fairly new one. is Scott still kind of figuring out what it is? But you know, you're trying to figure out who's on there. And so how do you want to deal with controversies? And how do you deal with new platforms?
I mean, I'm gonna jump in here, I would, I would first join as an individual user and check out what's going on. So I wouldn't automatically jump to like having your business go on a brand new platform. But for us ourselves. Like once we heard of Tick tock, we both downloaded it. And we both just started using it started watching videos,
or sort of creating our own content before recommending the attorney recording. Yes,
because you have to understand what types of content is on it and who is on it. And the only way you're really going to know is if you get on yourself.
Yeah, definitely, I would highly recommend testing it out from personal usage. But in terms of like AI, like I mentioned earlier, it's like I have a public relations background. And like, when it comes to controversy, I think the question you got to ask yourself, there is like, Are you prepared to deal with any potential Fallout that can be tied to your brand. And I think like a lot of people forget that, like, it's easy to be a keyboard warrior, right. And it's like, it's like, I love martial arts. Like I love fighting. Like, it's something that I've picked up in the last few years. And it's funny, because like, I talked to my wife about this all the time, like people who can actually fight are some of the nicest people, both online and in person. And so I think a lot of people that are, I think, at the end of the day, the sad thing is, there are people that are hurting, that are online, there are people that are wanting to fight, but in a virtual sense, right, like they couldn't actually back it up, if you call them out in person. But as a brand, you have to kind of protect your brand in that sense of like, Hey, this is what pays my bills. This is what feeds my family. So if I'm not prepared to handle any of the mess that could potentially come out from this, then I should just step away and not be associated with that.
Now that made sense, that kind of dovetails. So my next question was gonna be, you know, you see some brands that are very outspoken on certain issues, and whatever it is, and they both sides, the aisle politics, not politics, everything else, but they have a very firm stand, is that good and for brands is a bad you know, because, you know, sometimes it can alienate people, but it can also endear people to you, right, and essentially take a stand up and get a lot of people there, yay, they're cheering on, you know, whatever the topic is that I really am passionate about, and I become endeared to the brand. But on the same flip side, you can also alienate the people that don't agree with you on that topic. So how do you tackle that as a brand? And to your point that you should you always just easier to stay away? Or should on for some issues? Do you take that as as Hey, we can now focus our brand and really Garner that audience that would support us. So any thoughts on that? have thoughts on that?
I mean, it comes down to your company values, and a lot of time that ends up just being who's the owners values, right? Because at the end of the day, that owner kind of has a say on topics like that. And so we've had some clients that like to talk about those issues, and we've had others that do not mention it at all. Um, so. So yeah, I don't necessarily think it's good or bad to do that. I think it really is just like,
you just got to be prepared for whatever happens. Yeah. Because of whatever stance you take. So that's probably our recommendation. And it's like, well, we'll coach clients on that, and, and like, how to deal with that, how to respond to comments how to respond to direct messages. Because Yeah, it's like, there are certain topics that are just fire topics, right? And it's like, people will literally fight for every inch online. They're virtual space. And to me, that's really funny in a lot of ways. But at the same time, it's like, like McKenzie said, like, if these are your values, and this is what you're willing to stand by, no matter what the cost when Hey, go do it. But just know that there's a bunch of other things that could lead to that. And so just being prepared, whether it's good or bad.
No, definitely makes sense. So well, I'm going to slightly switch topics and still along the same lines, but you know, a lot of the questions. A lot of questions that I get from startups and small businesses and I've had myself as well is there is a wide variety on both photography, content creation, social media, marketing, kind of all that there's people that have started their firm yesterday. And there's people that have 20 years experience, there are people that will charge an exorbitant rates, people will charge cut, you know, very minimal rates. And you know, it's hard to figure out, especially if you don't you know, startup or small business, who you should go with what rates to expect, what rates or services you should get, how do you start to even tackle, you know, should end? And then there's always a question you get part of startups Hey, should you DIY it and do it myself? Because I can't afford it. And I think you guys touched on that a bit, but maybe focusing more on if I'm saying, okay, I've grown to the size that I'm looking to hire someone or whether it's in bringing some of them house having an outside agency or anything else? How do I sift through all of that? Because there's a lot of different competition, a lot of different good ones, bad ones, expensive ones, cheap ones. Any thoughts on any of that? Oh, yeah.
So we we work with, I guess, to give the listeners some context of like, what types of businesses we work with. So like, we have clients where like, they want us to fully manage all of their social media channels, whatever it might be on. So that could be anywhere from 1000 to $5,000 a month, we have some clients where it's like, they're literally just getting started, they only have a budget for just content creation. And so we literally create their content a month at a time, handed over to them, train them on how to post everything. So and help them with bread, best practices. And then we also do some consulting, where it's like, okay, I can't afford the content creation, I can't afford the management, but I can't afford like to give you some, to get some advice from you, where you check in with us a couple times a month. A lot of that comes down to like, okay, like, Yeah, what are you not good at, that you're willing to pay for which things would actually help you save time, which things stress you out? Because, like we have, like, there's one client that I can think of right off the top of our head and, and they provide experiences for their guests. And it's like this client, the owner has her own team that handles all of the reputation management, any of the comments, the messages, complaints, good reviews, bad reviews, and it's like we don't have to touch anything, because it's like her her team is so well trained in that sense. But then like they just like they're besides themselves when it comes to all we need to take pictures of this. Oh, we need to write posts. Oh, we need to make things or you need to schedule out things ahead of time. or something.
No, yeah, it really is just like what do you what do you what are you willing to do? And what are you not willing to do? So a lot of people just need help learning about social media to begin with some people just need the content help other people need the full management help. So it's, it's kind of like what can you afford? Because our content packages like Lord just creating content are usually just a few $100 a month. And so that's a lot easier for people that are just starting to handle then like a full service management.
Yeah, if if you have like any listeners right now that are like hey, I'm I am in a spot where I'm thinking about hiring an agency. Some of the questions you should ask are, Hey, mister agency or missus, agency person or miss agency, person, whatever, like agency owner? Do you create the content? Or do I have to create the content and give it to you? Do you handle the reviews? Whether they're good and bad? Or do I have to do that? Do I have to organize photoshoots? Or do you come in and do that? Or do I send you the product and you take it? So just kind of asking those questions and working through that. Because there are some social media agencies where they literally just expect you as a business owner, to provide them with everything. And then all they do is click in posts. And if that's your thing, then great, right. But if you don't have time, or the bandwidth or the mental energy to do any of that, then make sure that the agency you're hiring actually provides those services.
No, I think that that's definitely makes sense. And it's great advice will now as we're wrapping up towards the end of the podcast, and there's always so many more topics I wish we had time to chat on that we never do. But if we always asked one question, the end of each expert episode, so we'll jump to those that one now. And the question is, if you could if you're talking to a startup or a small business, someone that's just thinking about getting into social media and marketing and content and photography, and all the above, and you could give them this one thing, one thing that they get started on today that would help them to get down the road. What would be that one thing?
Think get your website up and figure out your sales process. Because I think that's been the hardest, hardest businesses to work with is when they don't have a clear sales process. So we can get you all the web traffic you need and want, right like we can set up ads, we can do everything organically that we know how. But if you don't have a way to close, then it's all for not so fast. Hear out your sales process, figure out how you close people and figure out like, yeah, like what you actually need to do to increase revenue. And then it's like the most agency owners that that are good at what they do will help you figure out those channels to amplify your sales process. So that's really, the that's probably the biggest piece of advice I give.
No. And I think that's a fair point. I mean, and that's one of the things that I had to learn with, you know, doing a few different businesses, especially as we got online, is you can have the world's prettiest website. And I'm not saying you shouldn't have a very nice and professional looking website. But if you don't have that sales process of how you're actually going to convert people or move them forward in the funnel, then a great looking website isn't going to give you that return. And so why you need both. You can't just simply say, oh, if we put a nice website, that's all we need, it needs to be that you mentioned that sales process behind it. Definitely. Well, as we wrap up, if people want to reach out to you, they want to be a client, a customer, they want to be an employee, they want to be an investor, they want to be your next best friend, any or all of the above. What's the best way to reach out find out more?
Just go to our website, demise creative. COMM j Am I as creative comm has their contact information. And the thing is, if you're shy if you're a shy person, you're like, Okay, I'm not quite ready to reach out to Josh McKenzie, we have a blog, you can definitely consume all the blog content you want. If you're like okay, like these guys sound okay, but we don't know exactly how they think or if they're going to explain things in a way that that we would we would get it Yeah, just read our blog. That's that's probably the best way to get to know us better without having to actually talk to us if you don't want to talk to us, but you want to learn more
awesome I definitely encourage people to check out the blog it sounds like a great source of information as well as you know if if they're looking to engage or otherwise get into the this social media realm and and up their game of bed, definitely encourage them to reach out to you. Well, thank you again, Mackenzie and Josh for coming on. It's been fun. It's been a pleasure. Now for all of you that are listeners. If you have your own journey to tell and you are and you're on it or you're in or your own expertise to share Feel free to go to inventive guest comm and apply to be on the show. Also a couple more things as listener one in your podcast player, make sure to click Subscribe so you know when all of our awesome episodes come out, and to leave us reuse or new people can find out about us. Last but not least, if you ever need help with their patents, trademarks or anything else, just go to strategy meeting calm, and we're always here to help. Thank you again guys and wish the next leg of your journey even better than the last